Curse

Sergio The Stick · Mar 03, 2009, 03:02 AM // 03:02

As a Ritualist, I would say that I'm pretty decent at it in PvE. I've noticed that there's some sort of tactics behind any sort of PvP fighting that I have yet to realize. I've tried just about everything I can think of, even finding builds online that supposedly work. I'm still not getting it. I've noticed that PvP is a lot different than PvE in the sense that you have to react differently, if one situation happens in PvE, I could get away with doing some things that I cannot in PvP. Do I just need to practice more, or am I completely failing altogether?

Reverend Dr · Mar 03, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

AB is a completely different game than RA, which is a completely different game than HA, which is a completely different game than GvG.

While there are things that generalize across formats, saying, "I'm failing at PvP" and not giving any details isn't going to let anyone know where you are or what you are doing.

Join a PvP guild. This is the single best thing you can do.

Sergio The Stick · Mar 03, 2009, 03:11 AM // 03:11

That would probably be my best bet, I used to have plenty of friends that would tell me anything I asked.

What generally happens is no matter what build I go into, my party can claim it's perfect, but I still seem to screw it up somehow. I'm usually the first to go down, if any at all. Is it just because people like to pick on Ritualists, or am I not using any build correctly?

I know I'm being vague, but I'm too stupid to explain it. XD;

Lord Natural · Mar 03, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Start with RA.

Play a lot, learn from your mistakes, take notice of what's owning you and think of how you might avoid such ownage in future matches. Don't get discouraged by losing; It's RA and everybody loses.

Look up builds if you want, but really examine your skills and figure out what you're trying to do with the build. There are a lot of bad ritualists tooling around in arenas, simply because they don't seem to know the point to their own build.

You're not going to out-monk a monk, so I don't suggest trying. Think more along the lines of a support role; Something which can help with defense but still put out some damage

Snow Bunny · Mar 03, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

As trivial as this may sound, think about the size of the PvP format and the possibilities in that format. That way you might gauge your usefulness.

For example:

In RA: It's a 4v4 arena - this means you need to be able to support yourself in case you don't load in with a monk. a Rt/Mo or Rt/W Restoration build will probably be your best shot, maybe with a tiny bit of channeling magic in there.

In HA: Haven't seen a rit in there in since Ritspike, but builds are gimmick there. You'll end up being something unglamorous.

In GvG: You'll either be a runner or some sort of midline support RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO at the stand. Observe a few games.

Each character, aside from a Warrior, takes on a different type of purpose in a different format.

I would follow Reverend Dr's advice and join a PvP guild.

Stealth Bomberman · Mar 03, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

You're not going to out-monk a monk, so I don't suggest trying.

ive seen it happen hundreds of times.

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 03, 2009, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

ive seen it happen hundreds of times.

Any rit in ra that can poop a few preservations and use warding effectively trumps the majority of monks I've come across in the last 2 years.

Reverend Dr · Mar 03, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Any rit in ra that can poop a few preservations and use warding effectively trumps the majority of monks I've come across in the last 2 years.

That is most of the people decent at monk got tired of stalemate matches, especially against teams of 4 offensive characters. Too many times I would have teams go 6-7 minutes against a team with no monk or rit and still score no kills. After that I refused to play a defensive character in RA anymore; several other people I play with have had the same thing happen to them.

Master Ketsu · Mar 03, 2009, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Skill is something you have to acquire on your own, but I am going to assume that you are starting of in AB and RA formats and tell you the most common mistakes I see ritualists making that you may or may not be guilty of.

In RA:

-Going in as a spirit spammer with all spirits on your bar, but no direct healing ( ( [mend body and soul][spirit light][weapon of warding] ). Spirit spamming is a defensive tactic. Monsters are retarded and will attack whatever is in their aggro bubble, human players are not. They will avoid your spirits and attack you or a monk, maybe killing the spirits that are annoying. Basically exactly what you didn't want them to do.

-Trying to spirit spam in bow range of a Ranger without block skills to prevent interrupts. Even mediocre rangers will interrupt your 5 second cast spirits.

-Not being wary of Mesmers and Rangers. Their skills are generally good against your own. If possible, it may even be a good idea to Rt/mo for [holy veil] or even Rt/me for [expel hexes]

-Failure to bring anti melee. Melee does a lot of fast recharging and solo spiker damage. This is another major difference between monsters and human players- Human players tend to unload all their damage very quickly. If a w/e or a/w see's a ritualist or a "squishie" caster without any protection they will jump on it. It only takes a good sin or warrior about 3~6 seconds to kill a vulnerable caster. Anti melee can be in the form of a secondary profession, but for rits you should focus on [weapon of warding],[weapon of shadow],[vengeful weapon],[Blind Was Mingson].

-Not spreading out your spirits or placing them in retarded locations. If you spirit spam far away from your team and expect it to accomplish anything at all, you are being retarded. Also, if you spirit spam with all of your spirits nearby each other, an elementalist may jump the opportunity to kill all of them with a single AoE spell.

-in AB:

-Bringing long recharging spirits. In AB, you won't camp one area for too long. Bringing spirits that take longer then 30 seconds to recharge is rarely a good idea.

-Failure to bring anti melee. Not staying wary of mesmers and rangers, basically most of the stuff I mentioned about RA.

-Failure to bring anti conditions ( cripple is common in AB )

-It's a good idea, though not required, to use a secondary profession for a speed boost. Dash is fine.

-General stupid crap that nubs of all professions do in AB. Trying to fight mobs, not focusing on capping, straying away from your team ( Especially in the case of ritualists and monks. )

the_jos · Mar 05, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio The Stick

What generally happens is no matter what build I go into, my party can claim it's perfect, but I still seem to screw it up somehow. I'm usually the first to go down, if any at all. Is it just because people like to pick on Ritualists, or am I not using any build correctly?

I know I'm being vague, but I'm too stupid to explain it. XD;

Depends.
In RA people will attack the Rt first when there is no monk in the party, since a Rt has most healing capacity.
In AB many players attack either anything that moves or will avoid fights as much as possible.

However, if you are the first to die in about any fight the first thing that pops into my mind is bad positioning and bad awareness of what happens around you.
Let's assume RA for a moment.
You will be one of the main targets for the opposing teams since you might have healing abilities. However, you can use this to your advantage.
By moving yourself around you can force the opposing team into a certain direction. You should be aware of people targeting you and people targeting others. Are you in range of their attacks (or shadow steps) or are you out of range. When I play warrior for example I would not start pounding on you.
I would start working on someone else and check some of your skills to see if you are indeed healing. If so, I just build adrenaline and suddenly switch to you. You see it happen and start moving away from me. Time position myself, speed boost when close and bull's.
As assassin I'd make sure you are wasting energy on healing others and all of a sudden step to you and finish you as much as possible.
As mesmer I would watch your way of casting spells and predict the next to interrupt or divert.
And I'd make sure that my team knows you are my target in all cases so they will also jump on you when in range.
Know where I am and the rest of my team and you know if you are in danger of not. Are you there, seek a safe spot. And don't pick the obvious one, people might be able to predict that one.

Next: Rune usage. One armor-ignoring hit and I know approx your health.
If you are using major or superior runes. If you have additional health runes and insignia's on your armor. And again I make sure my team knows it if you have relatively low health. In RA that means people will burn their res sigs on you.

Other than that people can give me a 'perfect build' and I would fail using it the first couple of times I play it.
The reason is that I'm not familiar with the build and how it's played.
That takes a couple of hours to days depending on profession and complexity of the build.
I even notice a different when I play my PvE builds after a couple of rounds in AB or RA. I got used to certain skills at my fingers and changing builds takes me up to 15 mins to get used to new skills at my fingers. That's builds I play quite often, both the PvE and the PvP build.

It gets even worse when you give me a new role, one I hardly ever play.
The position on the field would be different, skills I don't know. I need to think a lot. And people can see that on my way of play.
I'm on the wrong place on the field for my role, too far at the back or too far up front. I don't move fluently with the rest of the team, hit the wrong skills from time to time or on the wrong target.

My advice for now.
Pick a build and stick to it. Master it. Learn to play it without thinking.
When you can play like that you have plenty of time to look around.
What's happening, is that warrior in range, is he building adrenaline or did he just use his high adrenaline skill, why did that mesmer never target me? Is he stupid or just waiting for me to expose myself? Are those 4 red dots in my aggro bubble safe or could I back up so I'm only in range of one or two?
Play with as much health as possible, create a shield set for additional health and armor. Learn to swap between normal set and shield set. Watch how it affects your energy and learn to handle that.
If possible use a PvP slot so you can easily adjust armor and equipment.

Hundbert · Mar 05, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Are we talking about gvg or fort aspenwood or what? Or maybe this thread is just imaginary?

Reverend Dr · Mar 05, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

Are we talking about gvg or fort aspenwood or what? Or maybe this thread is just imaginary?

I dunno no one has ever elaborated.

But I strongly feel that suggesting that a new player start in RA is one of the worst possible suggestions. RA is basketball, GvG is golf; they are nowhere close to the same. It is very possible to like RA but hate the other formats. It is also possible that you would love the other formats but hate RA. In the latter case you wouldn't know this as you would have quit after hating RA.

If you want to try PvP the single best thing to do is join a PvP guild. You can get a taste for all of the PvP formats, rather than just that one format which is the red-headed stepchild of the family.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 06, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I dunno no one has ever elaborated.

But I strongly feel that suggesting that a new player start in RA is one of the worst possible suggestions.

Yup... I love AB/JQ etc, but I can't stand RA omg hate it hate it ragequit. I've never been on a streak of more than 2 wins despite getting 10 or more kills without dying in AB.

Would never send a new player to RA, would try to convince people in RA to go to more organized pvp.

Wish Swiftdeath · Mar 06, 2009, 08:58 AM // 08:58

AB is worse than RA... - you can be bad and still win there

If we're being honest unless you want your deer it's advisable to just go for GvG.

the_jos · Mar 06, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Yup... I love AB/JQ etc, but I can't stand RA omg hate it hate it ragequit. I've never been on a streak of more than 2 wins despite getting 10 or more kills without dying in AB.
Would never send a new player to RA, would try to convince people in RA to go to more organized pvp

Quote:

AB is worse than RA... - you can be bad and still win there

AB and RA are two completely different types of play.
I can be a very bad fighter but still win in AB because:
1. I know how to cap
2. My team knows how to avoid opposing teams
3. I have two good other teams on my side and the opposing teams are more of my level.
4. The opposing teams fail even more than I do

In RA, the moment I suck my team will waste res sigs on me and I'm a burden to the team. Because of the randomness it's hard to get a decent team but a couple of weeks ago I got 10 consec with a team including monk.
After that we managed to get two more wins even though the monk left and his replacement was afk in the first fight and most part of the second fight.
3/4, no monk and still winning? Sounds like a working team with some PvP experience.

I think people can learn to take care of themself in RA. That's something valuable in PvP. In AB, you can learn team coordination and movement without controling the other two teams. Why move to X when team 1 is closer to that point than you are? Cap close shrines or try taking advantage of capping one further away. Split up to take down valuable members of the opposing team or stay together to cap as fast as possible?
Learn to see patterns in the way people move, do they mob because they gain advantage by doing that or is it because people tend to follow others when not given directions to go somewhere else.

The fact that many people don't play this way doesn't mean it's not possible.
I mainly play RA to test builds and AB more to practice tactics and specific parts of builds. Most of my AB gameplay yesterday was practicing Bull's / Shock. Locking down players as well as handling the exhaustion of Shock.
See how I can intercept them to make Bull's count. People are more predictable in AB so it's easier to start there.
And all this not to become a better warrior player, but to see things from their perspective and being able to handle them better as monk.